on beauty and being wrong

Here's the chat from last night to anyone interested.

astempson: So, shall we chat about the book?

Cynthia: we shall. So, I totally predicted the Howard-Vee hook-up. Disgusting, she has been with father and son...

astempson: Yes, I anticipated it as well.
She is just... awful.
Did you notice that Howard mainly seems to do dumb things when he's drunk?
Conversation with his dad, hooking up with Vee, embarrassing himself at the party early on in the book...
And, same for Zora at that other party.

Cynthia: And did you notice that the mistresses he keeps all sing praise about his wife?

astempson: Hmm, true.

Cynthia: Vee was all talking about how Kiki is like an African Queen, and Claire talked about how Kiki was a new kind of female, confident and independent.

astempson: Yeah, but he didn't listen.
It was interesting that Kiki moved out, not Howard.

Cynthia: When it is her house

astempson: Right.

Cynthia: I liked the tomato anecdote or analogy, or whatever it is the students use to describe courses/professors.

astempson: Yesss, that was great.
I loved the taboo of telling a professor about it.
It was an interesting moment... Like, it's okay in Vee's mind to sleep with a prof, but not tell him about silly student inside jokes?

Cynthia: I don't know what to make of her. She has had eyes for Howard, but why? I just don't picture him as this attractive professor, so what's the draw? Also, how is she so utterly different from the rest of her family.
Maybe it has to do with daddy issues....

astempson: Well, she's like Jerome in that sense. He is the lone Christian in an atheist household, and she's the lone... well, unChristian in a house of Christians.
What better way to disrespect her father than to sleep with her father's enemy?

Cynthia: Yeah, they are both black sheeps. I am liking the daddy complex, that would actually explain a lot. She is kind of tense around her dad, and speaks of him jokingly. And Howard is his greatest opponent in a sense.
exactly!

astempson: Yep.
Meanwhile, Zora swoops in to fight her dad's battles.

Cynthia: Zora is a daddy's girl

astempson: Up until the very end.
Everyone is so flawed. It's interesting.
This book challenged me because I wasn't in love with any of the characters, but I was captivated by them.
What about the death of Mrs. Kipps?
Oooh, and the painting drama?

Cynthia: I don't agree with the characters, but I really liked them because they were captivating.

astempson: Yes.

Cynthia: yeah, Mrs. Kipps death surprised me

astempson: I thought the funeral was interesting. It was nice when Howard was able to stop judging people and just be in the moment, actually thinking about the big picture.

Cynthia: and then sleep with Monty's daughter
haha

astempson: Oh my goodness.
But, hold on, he goes and visits his dad.

Cynthia: I was starting to think, after he visited his dad, that maybe he would reconcile things. but no

astempson: Yeah.
I was feeling really hopeful.
And then he messed everything up.

Cynthia: he kind of can't do anything right

astempson: Once he was a repeat offender so to speak, I was far less willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
(P.S. - Unfortunately, my family is having a late dinner in approximately ten minutes, but we can continue the conversation past this evening!)

Cynthia: ok.

astempson: I really thought that things were starting to get better between him and Kiki. It was such a let-down when he messed up again.

Cynthia: agreed. I guess in a way, she had to move out because they were both not making a move. She had every right to kick him out, but it's good for her to start over

astempson: Yeah. I loved how everyone vicariously gave the dog extra love.
Trying to atone.
What about Levi?
I thought it was a very honest look at people trying to be aware of world events, when Levi was trying to read that book on Haiti, but wasn't confident enough to speak on the subject for a while.

Cynthia: When they discovered the picture, and he got in it with his mom about their own cleaning lady getting paid $4, I wanted to applaud him.

astempson: Yeah, that was big for him.
Even though he was involved in the theft... But, at least it was principled.
I must say, it surprised me that he wasn't using drugs.

Cynthia: I think he still just spits out what people tell him with no real knowledge, but I think he is much more aware than the family gives him credit

astempson: Yes. He pulled out that phrase... caucasian art dealer.

Cynthia: We haven't talked about affirmative action, what do you think of Monty being so opposed to it?

astempson: I think that Kiki did a great job of defending affirmative action. That whole exchange between the two of them was very interesting.
When she talks about her philosophy, that she told her kids to work five times as hard as the white kids...
I mean, she demonstrates that it's not about entitlement.

Cynthia: I think she is like Levi in that people really underestimate her. Zora, Jerome and Howard are intellectuals, and Levi and Kiki are out of that loop but mostly bc they don't flaunt it

astempson: Yes, that is true. I think of Levi as being like Kiki.
I'm rereading the passage now...

Cynthia: they have opinions and can back them up and fight you over them, they don't step down in battle and that surpises ppl

astempson: It's interesting at the end, what Monty has to say about liberals not believing that conservatives are motivated by moral convictions as profoundly held as those that liberals hold.
Yes, they are much stronger than people expect.

reschedule, on beauty and being wrong

Since it looks like only 2 people can make the Saturday chat, we've decided to reschedule it for Monday evening at 7pm. Hopefully this will work for those out of town or who have other scheduling conflicts on Saturday.

It's our last chat for this book, so we hope some of you can join us for the close.

Please leave a comment on this post if you will be able to make the Monday chat.

on beauty and being wrong

We are almost finished with our second book, how time flies.

Our final chat for On Beauty is scheduled for this weekend, let us know if you will be able to make it for some, all, or none of it.

Thanks to those who have already replied regarding the last chat.

If you haven't already, read below:

In preparation for the final chat, I want to know who is able to make the chat as it is currently scheduled:
on beauty and being wrong
chat: Saturday August 7 at 11am

Please comment with a yes or no.

On Beauty, The Anatomy Lesson

In preparation for the final chat, I want to know who is able to make the chat as it is currently scheduled:
on beauty and being wrong
chat: Saturday August 7 at 11am

Please comment with a yes or no.

Below is the transcript for our last chat.

On Beauty, The Anatomy Lesson chat

Well it looks like the anatomy lesson chat will be rescheduled to Sunday (7/25) afternoon, 3pm PST.

Unfortunately, there was no time that fit everyones convenience, but hopefully those who can't make this chat will be available for the third (and final) chat for On Beauty:
on beauty and being wrong
chat: Saturday August 7 at 11am

I hope those who were struggling with kipps and belsey have found the the anatomy lesson more enjoyable.

I am really enjoying the read and I look forward to discussing it. If you can't make the chat, feel free to post your thoughts here. To get it started, let me share with you what comes to mind when Howard opens his mouth: "oh no he didn't!" Particularly, after he speaks of the woman he married on page 207.

On Beauty Part One Chat Transcript

Thanks to everyone who participated in our first of three chats on On Beauty! If you were unable to make the chat, we invite you to read the transcript, after the jump.

On Beauty Part One Chat Tomorrow

We refuse to be each other.

H.J. Blackham

Hello, friends! Exciting news: tomorrow is our first chat on Zadie Smith's On Beauty! According to our schedule, our first chat will discuss the first part of the book, "Kipps and Belsey," which is the first 125 pages of my paperback edition.

So, if you're going to participate in tomorrow's chat, RSVP in the comments and send me your Gmail address (if we aren't already Gchat contacts). Our Gchat will commence at 6:30 pm Pacific time tomorrow, Wednesday, July 14th. We look forward to tomorrow's discussion!

Also, it's not too late to add preliminary comments on part one to CC's post from last week. This is also a great place for people to participate if they cannot make one of our chats. And, click here for our full reading schedule for On Beauty.

kipps and belsey, pt 1

Let's get some first impressions of On Beauty.

What are people's initials thoughts about the book? How do you like the story, the characters, and the writing?

On Beauty reading schedule

Hopefully you have all been able to pick up the new book, On Beauty, and are ready to get started.

The book is divided into three sections, so instead of having two discussions we have decided to have three, one after each section is complete. Below is the chat schedule.

kipps and belsey
chat: Wednesday July 14 at 6:30pm

the anatomy lesson
chat: Monday July 26 at 6:30pm

on beauty and being wrong
chat: Saturday August 7 at 11am

So have the first section (~125 pages) completed by July 14, the second section (~150 pages), and the final section (~170 pages). The sections aren't equal in length and that is why the schedule is kind of all over the place.

Please try and contribute to the discussion on the blog and/or in the chats. We don't expect everyone to be able to make them all (but cheers if you can), but we'd love to hear your thoughts sometime.
The first post for discussion will go up this week, on Wednesday July 7 after 6pm.

Book 2- On Beauty

Welcome friends!

Sorry if you couldn't make the first chat, if you'd like we can publish a google doc with some of the chat that way those who didn't make it can see what we discussed.

Now for book number 2...

We have decided to go with a bigger book and a contemporary piece. The book is On Beauty by Zadie Smith. We will begin reading on July 4th (this way you have time to get the book), and will take 5 weeks to read it (~90 pages a week) ending on August 7.

Because the book is so large, we have decided to have 2 chats. One chat will be Wednesday July 21 at 6:30pm and it will cover the first part of the book. The second/final chat will be Saturday August 7 at 11am.

Later this week Amanda Esq or I will post a schedule that tells which chapters should be read each week. Then, each week we will have a post go up where people can comment on the stuff from the previous week. This way there is a regular discussion and if anyone is unable to make a chat, they can always make the blog discussions :)

book 2

Future:
Looking forward to the next book, we'd like to hear some of your suggestions. Some suggestions are:

1984 by George Orwell

Great Expectations by Charles Dickens

Paradise Lost by John Milton

Sense and Sensibilty by Jane Austen

Treasure Island by Stevenson

We realize none of these are recent texts, but for the record we are not restricting ourselves to texts that were written in another century. Feel free to give suggestions, maybe there is a book you have been meaning to read but haven't gotten around to it yet, or a book you read but would really like to discuss it in a group. Since many of us work or go to school or spend a ridiculous amount of time watching TV (me!), let's plan on 80-100 pages a week.